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Kepi

Autotrade coupons

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Could you please remove them?  I've never seen any other server with anything like this.  My computer goes into sleep mode after 2 hours and I'm not allowed to change that (and honestly had to fight just to have it set at 2 hours instead of 30 minutes) because my parents constantly harp on me about the electricity bill since I'm a gamer, so in their eyes I must use the most electricity in the house by default.  Because of this, I can only vend for 2 hours at a time on your server.  So basically I have 3 options if I want to vend:

1. Vend for 2 hours at a time

2. Pay real money to buy the autotrade coupons (Not really an option because I don't make a whole lot of disposable income at the moment, being a full-time college student.  Yes I live with my parents, but I work very part-time since I'm taking classes full-time.  Plus I refuse to be forced to pay real money in order to vend, it's honestly ridiculous)

3. Vend to buy the coupon using zeny, which requires a coupon to vend more than 2 hours, which requires that I vend more than 2 hours, which requires a coupon, which requires I vend more than 2 hours (catch-22)

See the problem here?  Honestly they're kind of ridiculous.  I mean what even is the point of them?  I've been playing RO for close to 15 years on literally dozens of private servers and not once have I seen anything like this.  As long as I'm being completely honest, it feels like a cheap cash grab to make people donate if they want to be able to vend, or a failed attempt to control botters (I say failed because I saw one merchant vending 40 AK cards!  40!  Wonder how that person got so many...?) or an attempt to cap the number of players vending at once.  Honestly it kind of hurts the economy when someone can't vend and undercut prices, something I do regularly when I can autotrade, which encourages competition and helps keep prices low, which is the cornerstone of a healthy free economy.  One of the main things I do on RO is farm items to vend.  I can't really do that on this server, can I?  So why should I stay on this server if my main reason for being here was just taken away?  Well, I won't be.  Not until this is taken care of.  It's sad for me too because I found several nice people here, the rates are about what I'm used to, it's pre-renewal, there are a lot of features I like and it's an active server from what I can tell.  I'm sorry, I just refuse to play on a server that I can't autotrade on.  It's not right.  Finally, it honestly feels a bit draconian to me.  I can't be the only person that feels this way either.  I'm sure there are lots of people that would love to see the autotrade coupons done away with and I'm sure I'm not the only person you've driven away over this.  For the moment you've lost a player, though it is my sincerest hope that you'll take what I've said here to heart and consider removing the autotrade coupons.  If you do remove them, I'll be more than happy to come back.

Thank you for taking the time to read and consider this.

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Still ridiculous in my opinion.  What's the point?  There's literally no reason to have it this way and as I stated, in my nearly 15 years and over 2 dozen servers I've never seen anything like this.  Why don't other servers do this?  Because it's completely ridiculous and unnecessary and only serves to hurt the economy and ultimately the server by driving players away.  Honestly it's downright stupid.  In order to make up for that blow to my wallet (either IRL wallet or in-game wallet) I'd have to sell some pretty valuable stuff to really make it worthwhile right?  That's basically ENCOURAGING BOTTING!  How else am I going to get a TON of valuable things like AK cards to sell in order to make it worthwhile as a new player?

Can you see where I'm coming from?  Not only is the autotrade coupon/zeny option completely ludicrous, it literally encourages botting to make vending more worthwhile.  The harder you make it for a player to vend, the more they're going to want to bot to make up for it and no one likes bots, they ruin economies.

I hope you take the time to read over every point I've made, as I feel they're pretty valid points and should at least be considered, especially the point about botting.  That one in particular makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

EDIT: I've been informed that the coupons last a month, is that true?  Does the 5 million zeny option also last a month?

Edited by Kepi

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Hello,

• Auto trade/vend coupon is just a system for players who wants to do something besides vending or going to be away from their pc. (side note: other private-server has auto-trade system as well, not just us)

• If you are not a fan of vending, shouting in #trade in-game or #trade channel in discord is another option.

• Another option for obtaining the payment/currency needed for the auto-vend coupon is by buying through players who are holding 100 Point Coin (Premium Points), not just by donating/spending real-money.

 

Side note: We are not to be blamed if you can't play longer than 2 hours to vend your valuable goods. But with auto-vend coupon; even when you log-out, your character will still be vending. Which is good for you with your limited time playing😊

 

Good Day~!

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Clearly you didn't read what I wrote Reveuse, at least not in-depth.  If you had, you would've seen that what you replied with was the exact opposite of what I said.  Please allow me to clarify matters.

2 hours ago, Reveuse said:

• Auto trade/vend coupon is just a system for players who wants to do something besides vending or going to be away from their pc. (side note: other private-server has auto-trade system as well, not just us)

Yes, I'm well aware of what autotrade is.  I believe I mentioned a couple of times that I've been playing RO for almost 15 years on over 2 dozen private servers.  I'm also well aware that other private servers have this feature and that it's not exclusive to this particular server.  Please don't try to make me look uninformed/unreasonable.  I'm not stupid, nor do I feel I'm being unreasonable here.  What I said is that I've never seen a requirement to PAY (either IRL money or zeny) to use autotrade on any server I've ever been on and I feel it's absolutely ridiculous.

2 hours ago, Reveuse said:

• If you are not a fan of vending, shouting in #trade in-game or #trade channel in discord is another option.

I believe I stated multiple times that I like to vend.  In fact, I know I did.  Had you actually read what I wrote instead of just skimming it, you would've come across the following:

21 hours ago, Kepi said:

One of the main things I do on RO is farm items to vend.

This implies that one of my favorite things to do when playing RO is vend and make in-game money, supporting not only my character(s) and/or guild(s) but the server's economy as well.  Also I'm well aware that one can shout when trying to sell things.  That's not what this is about however.  Once again, this is about the requirement to PAY in order to autotrade.  If you want to impose a tax, then tax items as they're sold like some other servers do, don't block merchants from autotrading.

2 hours ago, Reveuse said:

• Another option for obtaining the payment/currency needed for the auto-vend coupon is by buying through players who are holding 100 Point Coin (Premium Points), not just by donating/spending real-money.

That's all well and good, except that it brings me back to the catch-22 that I mentioned.  I'll go ahead and define what that is, as well as quote said catch-22.

catch-22
noun
 
  1. a dilemma or difficult circumstance from which there is no escape because of mutually conflicting or dependent conditions.
21 hours ago, Kepi said:

3. Vend to buy the coupon using zeny, which requires a coupon to vend more than 2 hours, which requires that I vend more than 2 hours, which requires a coupon, which requires I vend more than 2 hours (catch-22)

See how the situation above (which I DID in fact mention in my previous post, as you can see) has no escape because of the mutually dependent set of conditions?  A leads to B which can't be resolved so B leads back to A which can't be resolved which leads back to B and so on without any resolution/escape.

2 hours ago, Reveuse said:

Side note: We are not to be blamed if you can't play longer than 2 hours to vend your valuable goods. But with auto-vend coupon; even when you log-out, your character will still be vending. Which is good for you with your limited time playing😊

Please don't try to make me look petty/unreasonable.  I never directly blamed the server for me not being able to vend longer than 2 hours.  Honestly that was kind of a cheap shot on your part and I really don't appreciate it.  I even said it was because my parents set the sleep mode restriction on my computer to save electricity:

21 hours ago, Kepi said:

My computer goes into sleep mode after 2 hours and I'm not allowed to change that (and honestly had to fight just to have it set at 2 hours instead of 30 minutes) because my parents constantly harp on me about the electricity bill since I'm a gamer, so in their eyes I must use the most electricity in the house by default.

Yes I realize that the restriction does impact my ability to vend, hence the issue at hand, however I never directly blamed the server for said restriction which you would have noticed had you thoroughly read what I took the time to write in my previous posts.

I also made another point that you never addressed.  The way the autotrade system is set up right now essentially ENCOURAGES newer players to bot in order to be able to afford to autotrade with in-game currency.  Not a good idea, unless the staff condones or is otherwise unconcerned with botting.  I did mention this in one of my previous posts:

12 hours ago, Kepi said:

In order to make up for that blow to my wallet (either IRL wallet or in-game wallet) I'd have to sell some pretty valuable stuff to really make it worthwhile right?  That's basically ENCOURAGING BOTTING!  How else am I going to get a TON of valuable things like AK cards to sell in order to make it worthwhile as a new player?

Can you see where I'm coming from?  Not only is the autotrade coupon/zeny option completely ludicrous, it literally encourages botting to make vending more worthwhile.

This is especially true if the 5 million zeny option only lasts for a single autotrade, which is something I again asked about but you didn't answer:

12 hours ago, Kepi said:

EDIT: I've been informed that the coupons last a month, is that true?  Does the 5 million zeny option also last a month?

 

In conclusion, I would first like to apologize for the length of this post, but as you can see there were quite a few things that were just downright inaccurate because several incorrect assumptions were made and not all of my points/questions were addressed/answered.  I would also like to apologize as well if this particular post seems in any way argumentative, combative, or otherwise disrespectful, as that was NOT my intent.  I just feel like my previous posts were kind of skimmed over by Reveuse and not only were assumptions made because of that, but as I stated, I feel like a cheap shot or two were taken as well.  I do apologize if that was not Reveuse's intention, but it did kind of come off that way.

 

Once again, I thank you for taking the time to read this admittedly lengthy post (as well as the previous ones, as there are points that still remain unaddressed, which I'll go into in a moment) and consider all of the points I have made as well as the implications of the autotrade system on this server in its current form.  In my opinion the current system only hurts the economy by discouraging new players who might be desperate for money to come in and undercut prices, which might cause others to drop their prices as well (economy 101) which will of course benefit consumers.  It can also have a detrimental impact upon the server itself by driving off players such as myself that prefer PvM and farming/vending, because new players that prefer that route will find it more difficult to vend.

Edited by Kepi

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Hello Kepi,

I really do understand your concerns. I get that autotrade coupons are hard to get for someone who just started playing.

However, as Kitty said, you can also pay the 5m fee. In this server, farming zeny is not hard at all, even for newbies. I advise you to read this and this guide if you want more info. It's just a matter of making those 5m worth. All the players here work hard for the zeny they make, as it is the nature of RO, a grind game.

As for the people selling many of the same card, I believe they come from card albums and not botting as you stated, since botting is not allowed here.

Having said this, we will take your thoughts into account and consider other options as well.

I hope you're having a wonderful day.

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I appreciate your understanding Nebula.  While I do understand that farming zeny is fairly easy and that RO is a grind-heavy game (as I mentioned, I have nearly 15 years of experience with it), adding in a system that forces players to pay in order to autotrade makes the game even more grind-heavy.  I play on mid-rate servers for a reason.  Firstly, I do like to work for what I get, not be spoon-fed everything like I've seen on high-rate servers, so I do appreciate the grind.  That being said, I don't play on low-rate servers because there's too much grinding and too little payoff for me, hence mid-rates being perfect for me.  Having to pay to autotrade (especially if the 5 million zeny fee is PER autotrade, something that hasn't yet been answered) sucks most of the reward out of the grind for a new player, regardless of how easy farming zeny is.

Regarding the people selling tons of AK cards, I wasn't trying to point fingers or anything, hence why I didn't name anyone.  While I am aware of OCAs, I just find it odd that someone had so many of an easy to get (albeit in small numbers without a bot) and very valuable item.  Since OCAs can give so many different cards, if you do the math the chances are pretty low that someone can get 40 AK cards from OCAs alone.  Still, my point with that is that the current autotrade system essentially encourages botting by newer players to help offset the cost of autotrading.

 

An additional concern that just occurred to me is this: If the 5 million zeny is per autotrade (again, that still hasn't been answered), if someone makes a mistake in their price(s) and then hits autotrade before they realize it (I personally check my prices with one of my other accounts after I start the autotrade, just as a triple-check kind of safety measure) then they'd have to pay another 5 million to fix the mistake.  5 million might not seem like much to established players, but it can be quite a big chunk of change for that kind of mistake to newer players.

Another concern that comes to mind is the fact that I might need to come out of autotrade early if I'm vending on my secondary account and find something I need/want to buy while playing on my main account, since usually my vending merchant has most of my money, at least early on.  If the 5 million zeny fee is per autotrade, I'd definitely be much more hesitant to do this, which again can harm the economy because people like me would be less inclined to buy things.

 

In short, there's literally no reason to have things set up this way and all it does is cause harm to the server in various ways.  There's honestly no benefit that I can see.

 

Thank you for taking my thoughts and concerns on this matter into consideration, I really do appreciate it and the other two staff that responded could take a lesson here: Saying that one little line works wonders because it lets people know that you're actually taking the time to read what they said and consider their points, instead of just brushing them off like the other two kinda did.  Again, nothing against them, but that's kind of the vibe I got.  It also helps that you added in the bit about understanding my concerns, for the same reason.  A little compassion can go a very long way.  Again, thank you for that.

Edited by Kepi

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Hello~

First, i would like to say sorry for my misunderstanding and i'm not trying to make you look stupid. I just misinterpret what you wrote.😔

Second, Since the data of the game was from the old server, the auto-trade coupon being implemented with a price was long before this server was even launched. And, it's been there ever since. But we are slowly making changes for our players, and that includes the 5m zeny alternative for players who can't buy the premium point auto-vend coupon. Anddddd, 5m auto-trade lasts for 2 weeks, you need to re-do it again once that 2 weeks is over.

Sooooo, correct me if i'm wrong again XD auto-trade having a price is your concern? if so, the GM team will discuss about it and take it to consideration. And if there's another one, you can use GM Assistant in-game instead, so you can talk to us more efficiently😊

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Thank you Reveuse.

Yes, I kind of figured the autotrade coupons had been in place for quite a while, since when I searched the forums for the term I found posts dating all the way back to May of last year.  I do appreciate that you're making changes for the players, including the 5 million zeny alternative.

I'm also glad to hear that the 5 million zeny option lasts for 2 weeks, which does alleviate my concerns somewhat.

You're entirely correct, my issue/concern is that autotrading has a price.  It's less severe than I thought it was (since it kind of seemed the 5 million was 1 time, being that you had to send a PM to an NPC for it), but in my opinion my points are still valid.  All it does is hurt the economy and the server as a whole in a number of ways.  I can literally see zero benefit to it.  However if there IS a reason for it and/or a benefit to the economy/server, I'm all ears.  I just can't see it.  As I said, the only benefits I can see are:

1. It encourages people to donate to buy the coupons (admittedly less so with the 5 million zeny option)

2. It's a rather ineffective anti-botting measure (ineffective since it doesn't really keep anyone from botting, just tries to discourage botting for profit, but in reality it encourages newbies to bot)

3. It's a rather ineffective method of reducing the number of people vending at one time, either for server load, to keep the vending area a bit cleaner, or some other reason

 

However when taken with the negatives of the current system, the above listed positives really just can't compare in my opinion.  The cons just really seem to outweigh the pros.  But as I admitted, there may be other benefit(s) that I haven't considered, which is why I'm willing to take those into consideration as well if there are any.

 

Again thank you for your reply and consideration in this matter.  I sincerely appreciate it and I would like to apologize once again for being a little on the severe side before as well.  As I mentioned, that wasn't my intent, rather I was trying to correct any misunderstandings as well as point out a few things that to me appeared to be a tad bit demeaning, even if it was unintentional.  I was also more than a little frustrated with the seemingly cavalier responses my posts received, again even if it was unintentional.  Your patience with me in this regard is also very much appreciated.

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9 hours ago, Kepi said:

 Having to pay to autotrade (especially if the 5 million zeny fee is PER autotrade, something that hasn't yet been answered) sucks most of the reward out of the grind for a new player, regardless of how easy farming zeny is.

Yes. I understand that every zeny counts when you're just getting started. I guess maybe the original reasoning behind the fee is that you pay to get a perk (as Reveuse said, it's an old system, so I'm not sure) since the @autotrade command is also a donor command, but I believe there could be other ways to achieve this as well.

9 hours ago, Kepi said:

While I am aware of OCAs, I just find it odd that someone had so many of an easy to get (albeit in small numbers without a bot) and very valuable item.  Since OCAs can give so many different cards, if you do the math the chances are pretty low that someone can get 40 AK cards from OCAs alone.

 

We have a MVP room with some MVPs that drop OCA. You'd be surprised of how much OCA people can farm. Haha

Anyway, as we said, we'll consider other options as well. Thank you for sharing your opinion Kepi! Hope to see you around.

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